Law Office Management Archives - Page 11 of 59

In-House Counsel’s Role in Bridging the Generation ‘We’ Gap

A new generation of tech savvy, social justice-focused and environmentally aware employee stakeholders are creating recruitment, retention and other employment challenges. Unlike their predecessors, the “Generation We” cohort of employees (which loosely encompasses Gens Y and Z and even the new “Alphas”) tend to view employment as experimental rather than a long-term commitment. Managing employees with a transactional approach to work and who demand purpose-driven employment creates significant human capital risk. Corporate counsel can play a key role in managing and mitigating that risk, not only in response to the growing ESG disclosure and regulation trends, but as part of the need to design future-proof legal frameworks for the workplace.

The Framework for Generation-Conscious Policies

Good compliance practice begins with a forward-looking framework for employment policies. The pandemic has razed traditional office life and if the prediction that 37% of office desks will remain empty in 2022 comes true, the technology supporting remote work and the policies governing it are mission critical. Generation We embraces technology as a life tool, not just a work tool. The primacy of technology requires a second look at policies that regulate it. Examples of leading-edge policies include those addressing AI infrastructure in the workplace (as applied to, for example, applicant tracking systems) and policies addressing anti-bias in technology. Social media and communication policies also demand a generationally-aware review. These policies, which are needed for brand protection and communication consistency, may need modernization in light of the platforms Generation We inhabit. One of legal’s (many) jobs is to construct that compliance framework. This may mean more than an annual review of human resources policies which is tough enough in this frenetic environment. But that policy review should include second look at all employment policies to ensure they are generationally adept, consistent with technology changes, and meet what the new workforce demands.

Who Participates and How

The Zoom room may have been new at the pandemic’s inception, but is mundane now. In-person teams have been displaced by fully remote or hybrid collaboration and a host of legal issues the virtual world creates. Some employment policies may not account for virtual world inclusiveness or rules of engagement. Microaggressions could be amplified in the virtual environment as employees who feel left out may lack the typical platforms to make those feeling known – resulting in the public broadcast of employment disputes or job abandonment. It is hard to pick up on social cues from an inch square web-box. It may even be harder to identify when someone feels sidelined because of gender, race or other underrepresented status. Legal should play a role in championing people on the sidelines. This means empowering managers to shut down grandstanders who grab the virtual floor. It also means taking note of those who don’t virtually raise their hands, and ensuring that all employees are heard. Rules of engagement regarding the use of video (all on? all off?) and the discouragement of side-chats and other digital unpleasantness not only express inclusiveness but role models best practices. Generation We demands inclusiveness in their work and personal lives; they are unforgiving of employers who lack sensitivity to these issues and are quick to publicize their contrary views.

Learning, not Training

Mandatory training may not speak to socially aware employees who reject stereotypical gender roles and labels and embrace racial justice. Employers cannot legally abandon statutorily-mandated training, but they can modernize it. Structured meetings with a core educational focus is meaningful because it imparts information and drives behavior. Counsel should consider helping their human resource partners to update traditional training to reflect learning about unconscious bias. Similarly, new subjects like mindfulness, wellness, mental health issues and how the workplace impacts people might also be included in learning tools. Are the corporation’s core messages embedded in the training or is it is an off-the-shelf program lacking relevance to the business? Training is an important part of counsel’s compliance obligations but incorporating the corporation’s core mission into that programming in a customized way is an effective learning tool. Corporate counsel plays a key role in driving change in these learning systems and these changes could positively mitigate human capital and business risk.

Performance with Purpose

Corporate counsel’s role is becoming less transactional (get the deal done) and more transformational (recruiting and retaining the workforce and implementing the ceaseless legal developments that have altered how we work). Performance in this context may be more than returning value to shareholders or a fulfilling a non-profit’s philanthropic aim. Performance may instead encompass achieving a group aim. The Great Resignation anecdotally informs us that Generation We is in search of meaning and personal growth, and not always money (though they are keenly interested in equitable compensation). Purpose-driven organizations can lead to a sense of community. Because community is important to this generation, the identification and amplification of the corporate mission becomes even more important. A recently released Goldman Sachs Asset management report concludes that a growing percentage of youngers workers are already planning to retire earlier than their predecessors. If that movement is real, retaining the next generation of workers becomes even more important.

Generation We is driving the primacy of the employee stakeholder and underlies the addition of the “E” to ESG. This generation fearlessly exercises their workplace voice and are quick to abandon work when a business cannot articulate or veers off a cohesive a mission. Counsel can play a key role in bridging the intergenerational divide. That role and its impact begins with the compliance framework being built in a manner that adapts to the ever-growing expectations of the next generation of the workforce.

Article By Jennifer B. Rubin of Mintz

For more articles on Generation We, visit the NLR labor section.

Legal News Roundup December 2021: Firm Inclusion & Diversity Efforts, Hiring & More

Happy new year! Read on for the latest law firm hiring, pro bono and innovation news:

Ropes and Gray announced the opening of their 12th location in Los Angeles in 2022, which will focus initially on the healthcare and equity & asset management industries. Attorneys Howard Glazer, Torrey McClary, Ranee Adipat and Leslie Thornton will assist in opening the new office, as they look to expand their reach in the Southern California market.

Ropes and Gray also added Brandon Howald to their new Los Angeles team. Mr. Howald brings 22 years of private equity experience to the practice.

“Opening an office in Los Angeles is a really exciting move for Ropes & Gray. Southern California is a market where we have been active for many years. We already have a robust and growing roster of clients in a region with a vibrant private equity and asset management business, as well as strong California health care, life sciences, M&A, and technology practices. We have been very strategic in establishing a presence where our clients needed us, from Asia to London to Chicago to the West Coast. That same vision propels us into Los Angeles—and Howard Glazer, Torrey McClary and Brandon Howald have the industry expertise, entrepreneurial drive and Southern California roots to help lead us,” said Ropes & Gray’s chair, Julie Jones.

“We are opening in Los Angeles with a powerful platform: a roster of market leading clients, established partners with deep ties to Los Angeles like Brandon Howald, Howard Glazer, Torrey McClary and our powerful global network—all with the high bar of excellence clients come to expect from Ropes & Gray,” said the firm’s managing partner, David Djaha.

Real estate and general practice attorney Carmen I. Pagan has joined Romer Debbas LLP as Partner and the head of their Agency Lending Practice. Ms. Pagan specializes in commercial lending issues, senior and student housing through Freddie Mac Seller/Servicer and Capital Markets Execution programs, cross-collateralization loans and more.

Recently, Hofstra University School of Law, named alumna Ms. Pagan asan “Outstanding Woman in Law” which acknowledges women who made inspiring contributions to the legal profession. Ms. Pagan is committed to the advancement of women’s issues in the workplace and diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) efforts.

McDermott Will & Emery announced three new additions to their Intellectual Property practice. The new additions are:

Simon Roberts, who focuses on patent litigation in the biotechnology and life sciences actors. Mr. Roberts is joining the New York office.
Jason Leonard, who advises on complex life sciences patent litigation. Mr. Leonard also is joining the New York office.
Maxwell ‘Mac’ Fox, who focuses on Intellectual Property IP infringement litigation and licensing and counseling matters. Mr. Fox will be joining the Japan office.

“McDermott continues to make incredible strides toward advancing our remarkable IP practice into an industry powerhouse. Simon and Jason bring significant life sciences patent litigation strength to our bench in New York, and Mac’s experience with Japanese technology and life science companies is unmatched. These three bring a lot of fire with them, and they will be incredible additions to our global IP team,” said William Gaede, Chair of McDermott’s Global IP practice.

Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton announced the addition of Ms. Lauren Strickroth as a partner in their Orange County office. Ms. Strickroth specializes in fiduciary litigation, business disputes, private wealth disputes and litigation involving estates and trusts matters. Ms. Strickroth also serves as general counsel for private businesses.

“Sheppard Mullin’s private wealth and fiduciary litigation team constitutes one of the premier practices in the U.S. We are confident Lauren will help expand our impressive record of success in the courtroom that has kept us at the top echelon of this niche field of trial attorneys throughout the U.S. and worldwide,” said Private Wealth and Fiduciary Litigation Practice Group Leader Adam Streisand.

“Over the last few years, our Private Wealth and Fiduciary Litigation practice has grown and their ongoing involvement in some of the most high-profile estate disputes is a testament to their outstanding reputation and expertise. We’re thrilled that Lauren is joining us,” said Sheppard Mullin’s vice chairman Jon Newby.

Legal Industry Awards and Recognition

Who’s Who Legal – Environment named Lynn L. Bergeson as a leading legal practitioner in North America for the 17th time. Further, she was named a top lawyer in chemicals, manufacturing, nanotechnology, and pharmaceuticals industry groups by Super Lawyers for the 15th time. Ms. Bergeson, an experienced attorney in environmental, chemical, and nanotechnological law, is presently a Managing Partner at Bergeson & Campbell, P.C., as well as President of The Acta Group , Bergeson & Campbell’s scientific and regulatory consulting arm.

As noted in the recognition by Who’s Who Legal, “Lynn Bergeson is renowned as ‘an excellent lawyer, particularly in chemical matters’. Her in-depth knowledge of risk assessment and liability management receives further applause.”

Simultaneously, Bergeson & Campbell, P.C. received National and Metropolitan Tier 1 rankings for Environmental Law and Environmental Litigation in U.S. News and World Report’s 2022 Best Law Firms. As of this recognition, the firm has held these rankings for a full decade.

Chicago Lawyer Magazine named Antonio M. Romanucci, Founding Partner at Romanucci & Blandin, LLC, their 2021 Person of the Year. The award is given to honor a notable newsmaker, trendsetter or legal leader in the preceding year. Mr. Romanucci, a long-time civil rights lawyer, most notably represented the family of George Floyd in the civil lawsuit against the City of Minneapolis and four police officers.

“There is no question that this honor is a capstone for my career as a trial attorney,” said Mr. Romanucci. “It’s so hard to believe how far my life has come since my days as a Cook County Public Defender to now one of the founding partners at a nearly 25-year-old Romanucci & Blandin. It’s a testament to the will and fortitude my law partner, Stephan Blandin, and I have always had to make sure the client comes first.”

“The banner headline for Antonio Romanucci this year is the historic $27 million settlement the George Floyd legal team secured,” said John McNally, Managing Editor at Chicago Lawyer Magazine. “It’s a major dollar figure for a case that struck nerves – many that continued to be frayed to this very day – throughout the United States. But where one could be despondent, Romanucci is hopeful. He has to be, otherwise what’s the point? So in addition to his heavy workload at Romanucci & Blandin, he’s barnstorming the country speaking to lawyers, law students and others who can make a difference in the quest for justice.”

Henry Talavera, a Shareholder at Polsinelli PC, received a Lifetime Achievement Award as part of Texas Lawyer’s 2021 Texas Legal Excellence Awards. A member of the firm’s Dallas office and the vice chair of the Employee Benefits and Executive Compensation Practice, Mr. Talavera is well-experienced in the fields of employment law and tax law, and has represented clients before the Internal Revenue Service, the U.S. Department of Labor, and the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation.

Brian Bullard, Managing Partner of Polsinelli’s Dallas office, notes the significance of this award: “For the last eight years at Polsinelli and throughout his career, Henry has played a vital role in the legal community, not only providing needed counsel to his wide range of clients but serving as an advocate for diversity in the profession and beyond. This Lifetime Achievement honor recognizes just how vital his contributions have been for the past three decades, and all of us at Polsinelli look forward to witnessing and supporting his continued accomplishments going forward.”

Firm Inclusion & Diversity Efforts

Much joined the Law Firm Antiracism Alliance (LFAA), which aims to use the law as a vehicle for change to help oppressed and underserved communities. Much previously represented the LFAA in filing an amicus brief in the Supreme Court about an issue involving Jim Crow measures used to disenfranchise Black jurors.

“We’re proud to join the nearly 300 Alliance firms working together to address systemic racism in the law. It’s our privilege and our responsibility to continue working for the rights of marginalized people,” said Steve Blonder, who led the recent work with LFAA and also serves as chair of the firm’s social responsibility initiative, Much Community.

The LFAA works to create systemic change and racial equity in the law.

Kimya S.P. Johnson joined Jackson Lewis as its new chief diversity, equity and inclusion officer (CDEIO) and principal. She will work with firm leadership, key stakeholders, and practice group leaders to expand, manage and oversee firmwide DEI initiatives and lead a team to execute a comprehensive, strategic DEI plan.

Ms. Johnson will also serve as a member of Jackson Lewis’ Corporate Diversity Counseling group, advising companies on diversity assessments and action plans. She has over 20 years of experience as an employment attorney, and supports employers in their efforts to provide legally-compliant, effective and organizationally-integrative DEI plans. Ms. Johnson previously served as the chair of the Diversity & Inclusion practice group at Ogletree Deakins.

“With Kimya at the helm of our strategic DEI efforts, we will strengthen our inclusive culture that values the contributions of every employee and continues to emphasize the importance of having a workforce that reflects the various communities in which we work,” said Firm Chair Kevin G. Lauri. “In addition, I believe all within Jackson Lewis and beyond will recognize we are intentional and committed to doing what it takes to move our leadership, our firm, and our profession forward in this vital area. We are thrilled to add Kimya to the team.”

“Fostering DEI is a critical component of Jackson Lewis’ culture, and the CDEIO role will collaborate with all departments and functions to advance DEI as a firm value,” said Firm Managing Principal Samantha Hoffman. “Kimya has a track record of creating meaningful enhancements for law firms. She is known as an innovator and has already contributed excellent ideas to build on the success of our DEI strategy. We are so pleased to have her on board.”

Before her career as an attorney, Ms. Johnson worked as a public elementary school teacher in South Bronx, New York and served as campaign manager for a candidate for U.S. Congress.

Dinsmore received Best in Class for diversity in the legal profession by Crain’s Cleveland Business in its issue recognizing seven “notable businesses championing diversity and inclusion.”

“Everyone has a customer in the business world, and the customer population is becoming more diverse,” partner Richik Sarkar told Crain’s. “Look around your company. If everyone seems the same, especially in leadership, you’ll have a problem serving your customer, and if you don’t take steps to understand your customers, you’ll face failure sooner rather than later.”

Dinsmore previously earned the Mansfield Rule 4.0 Certification Plus for the 2021 iteration of the diverse leadership hiring initiative. The firm also partnered with Procter & Gamble and the Ohio Innocence Project at Cincinnati Law to create a fellowship for a diverse recent law school graduate to gain experience in civil rights litigation and policy-making.

The firm’s Pre-Law Minority Program also helps students of color at four Kentucky universities.

Article By Hanna Taylor, Chandler Ford and Rachel Popa

of The National Law Review / The National Law Forum LLC

For more articles on legal marketing, visit the NLRLaw Office Management section.

Content Marketing Idea: Create a Year-End Email and Social Media Post

I have an idea for you to engage with your clients and prospects this time of year – send them a year-in-review email.

An effective year-in-review email strengthens confidence in your business, shows your growth while reinforcing your market position.

Think of your year-in-review email like an annual review of your company’s top highlights over the past year and a recap of your best blog posts, articles, webinars and other client-centric content.

Many brands use an annual report to brag about their successes, and that’s why they fall flat.

You’ll have so much more engagement if you keep the content client centric and not boastful.

This is not the place to tout your rankings or brag about why you are the best. Always ask yourself “why would my audience care about this piece of content?” “does it educate or help them?” and if you can’t answer that, omit it.

If you provide a product solution, use the email to remind your audience how much your product or service helped them achieve success and inspires them to accomplish even more next year.
You can also share stats and facts that show milestones and how you’ve grown, such as: reached x customers, welcomed x new team members, opened a new location, moved to a bigger office, product and partnership launches, mergers, anniversaries, a rebrand or lateral growth. You can also highlight specific clients. Just avoid vanity metrics.
Take a look at your behavioral data and identify trends within your audience, like top-selling products, most popular blog posts and client alerts, most shared social media posts, etc.
Consider recapping some top stories or interesting stats of the year in your industry and for each one, share a brief reflection, action you took or a relevant tip.
You can also look ahead to 2022 – discuss industry trends, highlight upcoming 2022 events or upcoming launches.
Add personalization, if possible – pull stats unique to each customer and incorporate into the content.
At the end of the email, thank your readers and make it easy for them to share the content with others.
Create a call to action depending on your business goals. Drive readers back to your website, promote sign-ups for your newsletter or encourage following your social channels.

Year-in-review emails are great for generating leads and conversions, engaging your audience, and retaining clients and are often overlooked.

Article By Stefanie M. Marrone of Stefanie Marrone Consulting

For more articles on social media, visit the NLR Law Office Management section.

Hiring and Marketing in the Legal Industry with Roy Sexton of Clark Hill Law and Legal Marketing Association [PODCAST]

Thor’s hammer, “Mjollnir!” Attorneys with dogs! Superman t-shirts! Roy Sexton leads a lively discussion about how the little quirks make your law firm more attractive to new hires, current staff, and the audience of your marketing efforts. He shares his career anecdotes and Clark Hill Law‘s recent branding revamp while being frank about the need for a new type of law firm culture. Learn more about the Legal Marketing Association here.

We’ve included a transcript of our conversation below, transcribed by artificial intelligence. The transcript has been lightly edited for style, clarity, and readability.

INTRO 00:02

Hello, and welcome to Legal News Reach, the official podcast for the National Law Review. Stay tuned for a discussion on the latest trends in legal marketing, SEO, law firm best practices, and more.

Rachel & Jessica 00:15

I’m Rachel. And I’m Jessica. We’re the Co-Hosts for The National Law Review’s Legal News Reach podcast.

Rachel 00:22

In this episode, we’re excited to talk to Roy Sexton, Director of Marketing for Clark Hill, about hiring and legal marketing. Roy would you like to introduce yourself?

Roy Sexton 00:30

Sure, I think you’re gonna regret having me as a guest. But I’m Roy Sexton, Director of Marketing. I’m also an active volunteer with the Legal Marketing Association, recently named President-elect for 2022, and President in 2023. Again, probably something they will live to regret. But I’m very honored to have been tapped in that way.

Rachel 00:50

Congratulations. As I mentioned earlier, one of the topics that we really want to dive into here is hiring and marketing trends in the legal industry, I think there’s been a lot of interesting hiring and sort of labor/employment topics to come out out of the pandemic. In particular, specifically, how it’s getting harder to hire people, you know, retaining people that we do have, and just how COVID maybe long term will affect labor in this country and employment and hiring and all those things. In terms of the difficulty that midsize firms are finding it hard to hire lawyers on their legal staff. Is that a trend that you’re seeing? And if so, like, how can offices really remedy that issue?

Roy Sexton 01:30

Yeah, obviously it’s a trend we’re seeing in the industry. But fortunately, we’re not seeing it at Clark Hill. I had a recent opening in our team. And it’s for an events role. So presumably there are a lot of people out there that in the event space that we’re looking so I’m not going to put you know, you got to think about what, again, each submarket of the hiring market, right, and what’s influencing that, but in this case, we had like 85 applicants all pretty strong. And when I’ve had positions posted before I get me like 2030. So again, it’s an event so that’s probably driving that as well. I think we as a firm have really pushed culture, we launched our new brand in May. And my boss Susan Hearn, who’s a genius and wonderful because performance reviews are coming up soon. I love you. She, you know, she had the wisdom with our chief HR officer Kathy Sullivan, to say, when we launched that brand, let’s take the values that we usually keep for internal purposes and make them the spotlight on the brand. So we push that hard. And we did a lot of video asset creation about the firm generally the culture we are because we knew our clients and prospects would say that’s a nice place. Those seem like good people, I want to work with them. And I think we now that our second phase of the brand launch, launched about a week or so ago was a talent brand specifically. And we have Kathy with a video that’s gotten like 60,000 views on our social media so far, talking about, “these are our values, we believe in them.” And at Clark Hill, everyone has an equal footing. I mean, I think we know law firms struggle with that kind of upstairs-downstairs thing. If you’re not an attorney. Well, you’re just you’re dispensable and you don’t be treated with the same level of respect. I think clerk Hill has tried to intentionally take a different tack in that regard. And the attorneys are there with us. I mean, it’s not like we’re trying to sell them on an idea that they themselves don’t believe. They are there already. So we’ve fortuitously pulled from the culture, we already had clerk Hill has grown through acquisition. So we had a lot of different regions that came together to be Clark Hill. And it was important for us to go forward or the brand that told the firm story, elevated, everyone, and said, “I’m part of a bigger family here.” And I think, knock-on-wood, our recruiting efforts have benefited from that kind of message. So you know, I don’t want to, you know, spoil the secret sauce. But for those firms that are facing that conundrum, everyone always says, Oh, we’ve got a great culture. Well, show it, demonstrate it, use video, use photos. This is my home, I’m in the basement. My husband sent me down here 19 months ago, and I haven’t come back. But you know, we in the early days of pandemic, I had my dog here beside me the whole time and my social media person, Tommy said, Hey, let’s do a four-legged coworkers campaign. And we did and we got so much response from that we were posting dogs not and you’re like oh, and Facebook, right? I think LinkedIn. Interestingly, a year later, LinkedIn now has dogs of LinkedIn. Have you noticed this? They promoting that and I’m like they stole our idea. After we went through about six weeks to this one person in the firm said, should we be doing that? That doesn’t really seem like something we should be promoting. I said Well, too late. It’s over. It’s said to people, this is who we are. We’re human beings. We do good work showing our humanity does not detract from our ability to do good work. It enhances it. And I think that’s what the pandemic has hopefully shown people that are willing to listen.

Rachel 04:47

I mean I dunno about Jess, but I’m all for more dog photos in general.

Jessica 04:52

Yes. Spoiled pets!

Roy Sexton 04:54

I also benefit as a manager from previous experience. I worked in healthcare for a decade and that’s fraught with its own challenges in the healthcare system I worked at had a Leadership Academy and I took every class I could and I loved it. And it was very much about, listen to your team, help them succeed. Find you have a job description, you have the talent, but find the path for them. So they see they have a career and potential. One of my early management memories is I had taken over marketing at this healthcare system, and they had an outboard Remember, you’re too young to remember those. It was like, it was a whiteboard, and it had little magnets or like I’m in, I’m out. And I had an exceptionally talented person who did our radio show all this stuff. She loved working from home, this is about 15 years ago. And I said, Fine, you can work from the moon, I don’t care. If you’re doing good work. I don’t care. Now look where we are. Well, she would always like to write on the board. I am working from home. So a colleague came in, who managed the quality and accreditation and was that kind of busy body of the of the health system. And she looked at that in whiteboard. And she kind of made a mental note and walked away. And later she goes, Roy, I got a call on the hotline. Do you have people working from home? I’m like, Maureen, you did not get a call on the hotline, you saw that board. So what I did is I walked out of my office and I said, “Hey, Barb, does this come off the wall?” And I ripped the whiteboard off the wall, I said, Yep, comes off the wall. So I solved for the problem a little differently. Lisa continued to work from home, I’m sure it was in violation of some policies and processes, but she was doing good work. And to change that, because someone was being a busybody in the organization was going to hurt the outcomes of the organization. You know, I’m not advocating people ignore the rules of their organization, don’t get me wrong, but understand your talent in what they need. And if they shine in a certain environment, let them be there. And don’t worry about what time they’d showed up. And because they’re gonna give you more than you ever expected, but if you manage for style and time and what they were, and when they showed up and how many hours they were in, they’re only going to give you that they’re not going to give you any more.

Rachel 06:59

I think that level of trust is really important. I think when they feel they can be trusted to sort of do that in their own way. And yeah, in the way that makes them work better. I think that’s something I hope many industries learn from this pandemic.

Roy Sexton 07:15

I don’t want to seem ageist, I do think we have generational issues. And it depends on your leadership and what they’re comfortable with. We are used to our cell phones and zoom in all these different ways that I can, you know, for 15 years now, I basically could do my job remotely, wherever and whatever I was doing, because there are those tools. So their assumption is, we all know what we know, they assume nobody’s doing anything because you’re not here in a suit and tie. No, it’s a little harder for a manager. But it’s so much more rewarding to focus on the outcomes. So you learn your talent, you learn their limitations, you help them fly, you don’t overly critique them until they’re ready. You can calibrate but let people get the foundation, let them be safe, folks who want to be here in a suit and tie if that’s what you want, you come in, but don’t expect that of everybody. You have to focus on the individual. And if they have talent, where are they going to shine the best, and it’s a job. And I appreciate that I work in a culture that has its rules, they follow the protocols, they ask you to commit to well, what are you doing to create a culture that people want to be part of, and it’s going to solve itself?

Rachel 08:23

You touched on this a little earlier in terms of bringing people into new roles, training them. And we touched a little bit on hiring, one of the things that we wanted to ask you about is what are your thoughts on hiring professional staff with like no experience in the legal industry, and what are the advantages and the disadvantages of that?

Roy Sexton 08:41

I think people get very linear and they’re like, Well, you only have these criteria, you don’t qualify for this. You don’t have to talk to the universe of people, some people just aren’t the right fit, but look at their personalities as much as the background they have. And I think you gain a lot. Somebody should at least have lawyers in their family. If you’re going to work for a law firm, you got to fit the personality is unique. Doctors have a unique challenge in that they love risk, but they love data. So if you’re working in marketing with doctors go in with enough data that they see you. You did some scientific method of this. Yeah, sure. Okay. Great. With lawyers, I went to I went in with data, because that’s what I knew from healthcare, oh, I barely left the room alive, because all they saw was risk and possibility. They want to avoid risk. You know, there’s some things you learn about the culture quickly, that that’s the only thing I would say if you’re going to hire somebody. And you have a very difficult law firm culture, a very demanding group of attorneys, you might want to grab somebody who’s at least worked with lawyers in some aspects. I don’t need to know the nuance of what the litigator is doing. But I need to know why it’s important, what audience you’re trying to reach. And then trust me to figure out the channels, the mechanisms and all that to do and sometimes attorneys jump into that they want to tie your hands and say I want to sponsor this rodeo because I’m going to get all this stuff out. I’m like, That’s a stupid idea, I can’t say that, I have to say, well, they could do that. Or you could do this, I don’t think you need to have a law firm background, at least for roles like mine. I hate it when people say it’s not rocket science, what we do is difficult, let’s not minimize that it is as hard as rocket science. Because it’s people, it’s relationships, and you never know what you’re getting when you walk in the door with somebody. But if you have some emotional intelligence, you have the chops to communicate to right, you understand the digital channels that are available to us. And you have the sensitivity to appreciate. This very busy person who has an attorney is very stressed out, and they’re not mad at you, they just don’t know what you’re talking about. And you have to have the patience and the calm and the kindness to understand what’s important to them, you can work very well. So that’s kind of what I look for when I’m interviewing people. I don’t get hung up on if they’ve worked in a law firm before. But if I feel like they’re a bad culture fit, and they haven’t worked in a law firm, and they don’t have the skills, and I said to somebody yesterday, you don’t want to work in a law firm, you’ve worked in retail, most other places don’t do it.

Rachel 11:07

That focus on interpersonal skills is something that I think, in the past has been undervalued. Yeah, sort of going off of what you said earlier, in terms of you know, you’re in college, you had an arts degree, I mean, think just my both have parts degrees, in some sense. And I also have a partner that has a STEM degree. And you know, there’s sort of like this dichotomy of like, those very hard math and science skills like, yeah, aren’t always what you need to succeed, a lot of times it is learning how to talk to people and form relationships and things like that.

Jessica 11:36

So when we think about the increasing conflation of a firm, like their operations that are changing- your cultural changes, what do you see as the role of a marketing professional in the market that exists now?

Roy Sexton 11:51

I think we’re in a unique opportunity, and a really strong one, you know, people, people fixate on the AI as an abstraction versus something that just needs to be the reality. When you think about the AI, or when you think about wellness or any of these topics, that confluence of law firms are struggling, we need to fix our culture, we need to have representation, we need to have legitimate, you know, put people in leadership roles that look like us on this call, you know, there are people of color there, you know, so people see themselves in the leadership ranks, and they’ll stick around. So if you make that change, now take the victory lap for marketing, tell people about it don’t don’t suddenly get shy. I’m celebrating a leader who’s creating great change. I’m celebrating young people who are being seen, their friends and family are like, wow, that’s a neat organization. And, again, you have to see that larger, you know, Disney, Apple, those companies do a good job of creating an environment you want to be part of, if you can steal some of that, as a law firm, don’t get so focused on I want a case tell everybody I won that case, it’s going to get me business. Okay, maybe. But if they see what kind of organization it is the culture change that’s happening, the fact that good work is coming out of that organization, then you’re going to attract talent, you’re going to attract customers, you’re going to have a sustainable model. And I do think sometimes people are just so linear in their thinking they miss that that broader storytelling, opportunity. So you know, I think we’re in a unique place. I also think the other side of the coin, I’m going to get real, technical, we have so much data available to us right now. We have so many tools. It is a marketer’s dream right now that we have to work with, we don’t have to go to outside agencies, sorry, service providers to do stuff. Use data in that way, again, to drive change in the culture to drive engagement. And these digital channels, you’re, you’re using them beautifully. I mean, I really, when I saw Jennifer Scholler, at ALM, she was overwhelmed with the response that has come from your platform. In recent months. This is it’s off the charts, because you got good content, you’re reaching people, you’re putting it out there in smart and clever ways. And you have a following. And people then gravitate, you know, they gravitate to where there’s a following, so.

Jessica 14:10

I’m so glad you mentioned how the legal industry does have the weird, high walls around it. Sometimes I think there’s such a particular hierarchy in a law firm in general. So the fact that you know, we all know people want to connect with people. So if you keep just having these tall walls of legality, I guess. Preventing people from wanting to connect with you. That’s why I mean, over and over. If we beat anything into this podcast, it’s that people want to know a law firm. They want to know the people. That makes them want to go to you in the first place.

Roy Sexton 14:47

I switched my LinkedIn picture the other day and I switched it back but I had one of me and a Superman t-shirt. Somebody took me I loved it. And I got so much great response to that but I got some people inside from like, Do you think that’s really the professional look you want to be going for and I second-guessed myself, I changed the picture. And then I resented myself for it, finding those moments of authenticity. That’s what people respond to. And I think we get so worried in law firms are rife with this law firms want to be first to be second, like, they don’t wanna be the first one to do anything, in case it’s too risky. But they want to be right there at second, we’ll be the first, no one’s paying that much attention anyway, you’re not going to, you’re not going to ruin your organization, anybody who comes at you with a phrase, you need to be taken seriously run away from them, because they’re worried about the wrong, none of us need to be taken seriously. We need to do good work, we need to be accessible, we need to have fun and enjoy the lives that we’re living. And those people who say those things to you, they’re nervous themselves, they want to be out of their own shell.

Jessica 15:46

It’s just that old environment, like what you’re saying about employees, you know, there are the ones who want to wear the suit and come in, and that’s fine. But that’s because that’s who they are. Yeah, and you should be okay with that, if that’s what you want to do. You know, but also the same has to go for people who want to work remote, and yeah, have Thor’s hammer behind them. You know what I mean? Like, I just feel like, I’m hiring the attorney that posts dog photos. That’s something I can connect with. And yeah, I think that attorneys in particular, so before this, I was a paralegal for a couple of years. So I’ve worked around attorneys a lot. And I think the, it’s that competition with each other, you know, you got to be the best you got to put up your Super Lawyers because people won’t take you seriously. I don’t know why that idea persists.

Roy Sexton 16:32

So I realize it come into a room. And it’s easy for me to say I don’t need to worry about being taken seriously, because I have the latitude to have Thor’s hammer behind me. And it’s colorful, somebody else who’s coming maybe and nobody knows I’m gay unless I tell him but I tell everybody, I have the latitude to be a little more myself. And I appreciate that some of what I’m saying may not work for people who have been in marginalized groups or who have felt, I’m speaking to two women. And so I’m going to mansplain back to you the experience you’ve had my husband, I were talking about this last night, he had a colleague who posted something about I’m part of this women’s group, and I’m so grateful for their support. And my husband’s kind of manager who literally does not see gender color. He just sees talent. He’s a wonderful human being in that regard. He goes, does that do people really need those groups still, I go, honey, you’re different than everybody else. A lot of women have had to go through hell. We saw it in the “Me Too” movement, things that we never knew or heard about. It happened behind closed doors, slights that happen, the marginalization that happened. So I realize there is an element sometimes if I wear the outfit everybody else is wearing, it gives me entree to then be myself, try to help us try to break down that need in an environment. If you knew the hurdles you had to overcome to get into your role, break them down for other people don’t let that continue. Because it’s unnecessary.

Jessica 17:57

I want to know because I’m sure law firms now with all these changes are getting so…not frightened- that might be too strong of a word, but they’re very cautious about things in general, you know, the risk, the risk management part of that is definitely a little bit. But when it comes to how you’re doing things with marketing, you know, how are you using like numbers to show that the work you’re doing is effective? You know, how are you doing that to reassure firms that yeah, you know, the necessity of it.

Roy Sexton 18:32

So we use Power BI as a sort of a baseline, we’re doing a lot of analysis through what we use sprout for social media. I’m not I’m not advertising to these people. I’m just saying that’s what we use. We’re working with ALM right now sorry, on some direct advertising. And and, and that’s giving us that ability to target and figure out who we’re reaching when we’re reaching and how we’re reaching them. Were really, with the new launch of the new website and brand, we stepped up our SEO, and we’re working with a partner there that isn’t just doing the SEO for us. They’re teaching our team how to do it correctly. So we have a monthly report that we send out to the firm, that’s more anecdotal. But he always take those laps, put yourself back in front of the firm going, here’s everything that happened this month, half of them read it, we get some nasty grams too long, didn’t read fonts too small, that kind of stuff. But mostly they’re like, we’re here. And now on a weekly basis, we send another digest, like, here’s how many alerts went out. Here’s how many events. So those are your kind of leading indicators that people go, there’s some kinetics happening and social media is really helpful that way.

Rachel 19:31

For our next topic, we want to focus in more on what Clark Hill has been doing in recent months, like you mentioned specifically earlier that the firm, create a new brand and focused on you know, the sort of value in the culture-aspects of it. How did that process go and what can law firms learn from?

Roy Sexton 19:48

The pandemic served us well, it gave us more time. We had a very aggressive timeline that I don’t know that we would have hit before. It gave us more months to dig in, and really what we had done in the development of brand- we worked with One North on the brand and the website. And we had a lot of listening and learning outposts. That was important to me. And it was important to my boss. And so we had a survey of everybody in the firm, not just attorneys, and we got like an 80% response rate with like, a shortlist of questions. What do you think the brand is? What do you hear that? You know, because we were bringing a culture together too. And then we went externally, we did client interviews, what do you think of the brand? What do we do? Well, what don’t we do, we baked all that together. So we did the discovery piece of it to then move to well, What messages do we think are a reflection of who we are, and then what’s our stretch to what we want to be, and we took the time to go through that process. And then we landed on a brand, we then with the pandemic, we had the moment to step back and go, Okay, we didn’t think we’re gonna be able to go through all the content on the website like we wanted to, we do. So let’s use the Education own moment here. Rather than just marketing, go rewrite everything and put it up. We use this as an educational opportunity with our BD folks and everybody to divvy up all the bios, we had a new structure to it, we had a headline, we did that intentionally, like let’s create a structure that forces a rewrite of the BIOS. So then we had the time to do a bio project. And Alex, France and Tommy on our team, they, they set it all up, they put a video together, we went to each business unit said, This is what we’re trying to do, the voice we’re trying to capture. We got pushback, we got people that didn’t want to do it for mostly though people. And the attorneys themselves took a swing at it. We use the development of the brand and the website very collaboratively, we delegated everybody got some time in it. We worked with all the operational areas in the brain lunch, we had an extensive process. Cheryl Kravitz helped us with a timeline of HR, you’re doing this, it you’re doing this, it’s not just only marketing things, everybody gets a piece of this. And at the end of it, we had a celebration, everybody got a swag box, we wanted to make sure everybody wherever they were got a box of new branded stuff, we had a wonderful video that tells studios put together of who we are telling our story. I’m an opportunist, and I’m cheap. So I’m like, we want to do a video that will work internally. And then I can slice it up and put it externally people didn’t understand what the hell I was talking about until we did it. They were like, well, this is for we want to talk about internal things. They go no, no, just inspire people. We can have some framing stuff from our leaders, but just inspire people. And then we’ll have that out in the world. We had like 370,000 views of that video, when all was said and done. It was thrilling. And we told our story, but we took time to have everybody feel like they were part of it. So when we launched the brand, not many people had seen it. But they felt like they were part of it when they saw it. And that made all the difference with all the other random stuff that comes our way on a daily basis to do this correctly, and make it launch where you don’t have 1,000 knives in your back. Give yourself two years and really open up the process where you can have people feel like they were part of it.

Rachel 22:51

Yeah, I think what you’re saying how the pandemic helps move things along is not uncommon. In terms of like the interviews we’ve done so far. I think a lot of law firms have said that the pandemic really pushed them to make these changes. And these changes were something that were in the pipeline for a while, and they just forced to move forward with them because they didn’t have any other choice. So that’s sort of that sort of leads into my next question here, when you were doing this and doing this branding and all this other stuff, and you launched it, you know, what has really been the response that

Roy Sexton 23:25

It was overwhelming. They were minor hiccups. And what I love about my boss is just a Roy, just take a pause, it’s fine, don’t don’t catastrophize it’s gonna be fine. Just We’ll get through it. It’s not a big deal. So sometimes you gotta listen on the things that don’t matter, really like the font of that email, and give. And then you have the big win. And by God, everybody loved the stuff that mattered the brand, they were so hungry for it. They had felt included, we done enough lead up to it, they knew it was coming, they loved the look, they felt elevated, that’s what you want with a brand. They felt like the brand that they’d had and inherited. And again, these were four or five different separate firms that have come together, Clark Hill inherited an old Clark Hill brand that even Clark Hills unlike anymore, seven felt like they needed new clothes for school. They so you gave them something fresh. And the video that was embedded with all these faces from all over the country, again, my boss’s wisdom, because I was like, well, let’s just have two or three people. Let’s make this easy. And she was No, no, Roy, we got to figure out how to get to six different locations and have a lot of people interviewed. She was right. Because people saw themselves in the story. And the response we got internally was exactly what we wanted. People quieted down. Their obsession was signage and all this stuff that they were driving us all crazy because they were like, Oh, you have this in hand. It gave us the credibility and all the other things to like, Oh, you guys actually know what you’re doing? Yeah, we do. And then the external response was, like I said with the video itself had 300 I think 375,000 views and the response from people outside the firm, because lawyers will never tell you that they’ll tell you when someone Outside the firm is teasing us. But they don’t tell you when they hear the good stuff. But I know they did. I know they heard from people outside going, Wow, you guys woke up, you’re doing interesting stuff. And and that’s what we wanted. You know we’re having a record year again, many law firms are having a record year again. So I can’t chalk it up to the brand and the website necessarily, but I feel like we landed a market and brand message just when we needed it at the right time to galvanize the organization to help us move forward. With strong leadership. Our CEO has been there every step of the way and supportive he was part of the brand launch, she has reinforced the things we needed him too. He’s challenged us when we needed to be challenged. My boss has seen the long game. I’ve had an incredible team of people whenever Anderson, she I feel like I’m giving an Oscar speech came in under budget way under budget, and on time, which is unheard of, and I’m very proud of that

Rachel 25:51

We spoke a little earlier was the importance of diversity and creating diverse teams. Can you speak a little bit about you know, what Clark Hill has done to do that, and like why it’s important?

Roy Sexton 26:01

Part of the DNA of the organization, our Texas offices that came online a couple years ago, Strassburger, they had a really robust program, they called it bold thrive and pride. I think we’re sort of evolving. I think affinity groups are important, but sometimes they almost think they also do some disservice. It’s like, I feel this way, sometimes all you gay people get together and go do stuff and talk and it’s like, Well, okay, but we need to, we need to demonstrate to everyone else, we have value. But those are that we brought those in and again made them part of this launch that we had attorney leaders now, not just in Texas, but across the country who are driving those efforts. Pride is obviously for our LGBTQ community. Thrive is for people of color. And then bold is our women’s initiative. But somewhat, they’re all a bit inwardly focused, because you’re trying to provide talent, tools, resources, and commiseration to people who are in those groups that work for the firm. But we’ve also started to extend that out to say, well, what are the programmatic offerings we can provide to demonstrate we’re committed to this, the education pieces, it’s, it’s gonna sound like small potatoes, but it was a big impact. Alex France on my team, she looked at the calendar and all of the events that are important both as recognition months, as well as the holidays, based on faith and culture and all those things. And so we have a an intentional message that goes on, we have an editorial calendar against that. And we’ve also used as an engagement strategy with our HR folks. So for, for example, Asian Asian American Pacific Islanders month, we had Alex and glory pack who was with us at the time, they put together little placards, we put on our social media with a story or a video component with people in their own words. And again, we didn’t live in it to attorneys, it’s paralegals, it was office managers, it was legal assistants, anybody who was in that category, or felt strongly about that and wanted to had something to offer, we made sure we were telling their stories on our digital channels. And then we circulated that internally. Now that all feels a little window dressing, you know, to get to the substantive issues our leadership team is actively looking at, how are we recruiting? Who are we putting in what roles how are we promoting and actively assessing that data to say, you know, are we using the Mansfield rubric, we don’t have enough hear or in some cases, we’ve actually been pleasantly surprised, because I think you always feel like you’re not doing enough. And then you look at some of it, and you’re like, Oh, we’re actually we’ve been more intentionally we even realized. So Linda Watson, who’s one of our attorneys has been leading that effort with HR, and they’re relatively early in that journey. But you know, they’re taking it quite seriously. When I was in health care, we went, we did something called the Malcolm Baldrige assessment, which is a quality piece, and some people do it just to win the award, we did it to actually improve. And Clarksville is doing that same thing with Mansfield, it’s like, of course, we want the recognition. But we want to use the criteria to get better. And I’m thrilled to see that, you know, I’m not involved in it other than this communication stuff I talk about, but what I’m seeing the firm do, I’m really pleased about. So

Rachel 29:03

I think it’s just great to highlight those things on this podcast, I think being able to learn from what others have done and be able to apply it to actually helps make change.

Roy Sexton 29:12

Well, and that’s why I’ve always loved being part of LMA. I mean, I don’t know if the attorneys know this. But when we all get together we tell everybody what we’re doing. Right? Don’t do that. Well, it’s there’s what you do, and there’s how you do it. So it’s it’s always good to see what other people are doing. Because then you can take that idea and build on it. And then they can build on your idea and you just get better. You know, there’s always live in abundance, not scarcity. And so you’re right, look at what other people are doing. go think about that. We should do some of that. But let’s do it our way. Let’s take the idea and do it in our style. And then you’re not stealing from anybody so

Rachel 29:47

Excellent. So yeah, we’ve had a great conversation with you today. Right. We really appreciate you joining us. A special thanks to Roy Sexton from Clark Hill for joining us today.

Roy Sexton

Thank you for having me.

Article By Rachel Popa and Jessica Scheck of The National Law Review / The National Law Forum LLC

For more articles on the legal industry, visit the NLR Law Office Management section.

Revenue Growth Strategy with Goulston & Storrs P.C.[PODCAST]

Your clients are here, are you listening? Rachel meets with Beth Cuzzone of Goulston & Storrs P.C. to discuss how to, “pitch less and listen more,” when it comes to law firm growth.

We’ve included a transcript of our conversation below, transcribed by artificial intelligence. The transcript has been lightly edited for style, clarity and readability.

INTRO 00:02

Hello and welcome to Legal News Reach, the official podcast for The National Law Review. Stay tuned for more discussion on the latest trends in legal marketing, SEO, law firm best practices and more.

Rachel 00:15

I’m Rachel, the Editorial Manager at the National Law Review. In this episode we’re excited to talk to Beth Cuzzone, Chief Strategic Growth Officer for Goulston & Storrs. Beth’s role at Goulston & Storrs revolves around relationships. Relationships internally and externally. Relationships with prospects, clients and business partners. With decades of experience in the industry, Beth has been inducted into the College of Law Practice Management and the Legal Marketing Hall Of Fame, published by the ABA, Thomson Reuters and several industry publications, and awarded several honors throughout her career. Beth is also a co-founder of Legal Sales and Service Organization. Thank you, Beth, for joining us today.

Beth Cuzzone 00:53

Thank you so much for having me, Rachel. And I’m so excited to see that you’ve launched this podcast series.

Rachel 00:59

We’re very excited to have launched it and really excited that we got to have you on. So one of the main topics we want to dive in today was bringing the voice of the client into legal marketing. So I was wondering if we could just get your thoughts on that? Why is it so important to bring the voice of the client into firms?

Beth Cuzzone

That’s a great place to start, Rachel, that’s a great place to start. And I do think bringing the voice of the client into what we are doing every day in the in law firms is really important, let me give you a couple of statistics. 80% of revenue will come from 20% of existing clients and law firms. So your future revenue depends on 20% of your existing clients, I’m going to say that, again, 80% of revenue comes from 20% of your existing clients, then you’ve got five times as many resources to attract a new client than it does to keep an existing one, you take those and you marry that with market demand. So spoiler alert, for anybody who’s listening to this podcast, what we want you to be thinking about is bringing the voice of the client and listening more to client needs to basically help you be more competitive, generate more revenue, be more profitable, and increase your client service.

Rachel 02:16

It definitely seems like an important part, especially that statistic of keeping those 20% of clients to make sure you hang on to that revenue. That’s super important. How has COVID-19 affected firms relationship with their clients? Because it’s sort of, you know, buried its way into basically every single facet of our lives. So I’m curious to get your thoughts on that.

Beth Cuzzone 02:37

No, it’s true. I mean, if we start on the very premise that clients are the most important variable, and growing revenue and profit for law firms, and that the only thing that’s constant is change, right? Clients’ needs change, decision makers at client companies change, laws and regulations change. And so if we aren’t having those open dialogue conversations and getting feedback and conversations with our clients, then how do we stay ahead of change? And then you bring in COVID, you know, with great disruption, it brings great opportunity. And so I would say now is the time for lawyers and law firms to be implementing, bringing the voice of the client into their firm, no matter what they’re doing to bring it in even stronger. I think having client feedback programs and listening to clients was once a nice to have now it’s a need to have. So if you are still doing the exact same legal services in the exact same way that you were pre pandemic, not to sound harsh, I would consider this your warning light for b2b law firms. There aren’t new issues, new ways of doing business, new technologies. And so I think the pandemic has catapulted the need for firms to be doing this with much more vigor, and process and framework. So I also think that the pandemic has affected firms’ relationships with their clients in a lot of good ways. We are bringing clients or clients are bringing their lawyers into their home. I don’t know about you, but over the last year and a half, I’ve met pets, children, delivery people, family members, from our clients, and my colleagues and my friends in the industry that I probably never would have if not for the pandemic and the reality of Zoom. So I do think that we’re starting to get to know clients in a different way. That’s not a bad thing. But again, I also think that the business issues that have come with COVID has created opportunity, and it also has created the foundation for “let’s do things differently”

Rachel 05:00

That’s some really good insight there. I want to get your thoughts on what firms can do, why it’s important for firms to bring in their clients into their conversations in legal marketing, what firms can do right now to improve those relationships.

Beth Cuzzone 05:13

Beyond the feedback, I do think just in general, overarching, how you improve your relationship with clients, is about asking yourself and taking a little bit of a litmus test. Take your top 10 clients, your top 15, your top three, your top 20, it depends on the size of your firm your practice that sort of thing. And say, “Do I know every one of my clients strategic priorities, strategic directions, measurable goals in the next year or two?” I don’t think we’re going to find many people that can actually rehearse them for their top five, top 10, top 20, top 30 clients. The other thing I would say is, you know, really being able to impact your relationship is asking the people that you have relationships with at client companies – how are they evaluated? How are they deemed successful? What are they trying to accomplish, but sometimes their goals may be different than the company goals. If there is a software technology company, and they have an in house legal department, the technology company’s mission might be changing the way science is done or impact on a disease. So that’s kind of their mission and their strategic direction. And goals might be about how many new customers they can acquire and that sort of thing. That’s all very important information to know. But if you’re the General Counsel, you know, maybe what you’re trying to accomplish is budget certainty. So if you don’t know those answers to those questions, then it’s hard to be able to provide service that has value. And you know, basically, what I mean by that is, how are you spending time off the clock with your clients? What value are you providing? Because when you’re on the clock, they’re paying you to be strategic, substantive, proactive, responsive, accessible, all of those things they’re paying you for. But when you’re off the clock, how are you helping their business? What kind of information are you giving them? Are you making introductions to them? Are you saving them money? And so I think it’s a little bit like throwing something at the wall to see if it sticks if you don’t know the answer to those questions.

Rachel 07:28

We spoke a little bit about spending time with clients off the clock and, you know, engaging with them in that way. Is that part of that process? Or, you know, is that one of the ways that people can see that feedback out?

Beth Cuzzone 07:42

Absolutely. Bringing the voice of your client into the firm can be done in many different ways. And feedback is one of them. But that is a way that you can add value to the client, because you will hear when you’re asking for feedback about ways that you’ll be able to improve your service. And then you’ll be able to go back and implement change and in turn, increase client service and really impact your client relationship. It all ties together. And it is one facet of client service.

Rachel 08:19

So you recently wrote a book about client feedback for the ABA. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Beth Cuzzone 08:26

Well, I think timing played a big role. We were just talking about this. I think this now is the time for law firms to really double down in this area. We’ve all been reading books and articles about obtaining feedback from clients. And it’s important. And they’ll focus on the business case, some of the statistics that you and I were just talking about, or they’ll focus on a phase of the feedback loop. The book that we wanted to create was an instruction that would lay out the entire process, step by step of how our industry can move along the maturation line of client feedback, bringing the voice of the client, making improvements, and keeping that loop moving.

Rachel 09:22

Seems like an exciting topic and a great opportunity. So what are some ways you’re seeing firms getting this feedback?

Beth Cuzzone 09:29

There’s a couple of things that are happening. First, there’s a huge technology push in business right now. And so I’m seeing some terrific uses of technology and lawyers and law firms or marketing. The marketing function in law firms can do after action reviews, which is at the end of a deal, or a case, being able to sit down with a client for a few minutes and say, how did we do? What did you think of our team? And what did you like best about us? Did we surprise you? Are there other things that other law firms do that you’d like that you’d like us to do in the future. There’s also online surveys, I’ve seen law firms put a couple of survey questions on their bills, every two years, we’re going to sit down and have an annual strategy session. And we’re going to take two or three hours off the clock. And we’re going to talk about how we’ve been doing. And we’re going to talk about the people on our team, we’re going to talk about the changes in your company, we’re going to talk about what the pipeline of issues look like, and how we can be preventative and try to bring down, you know, the legal spend that sort of thing. And that’s where you either hire a consultant, or in house, you do it, where it doesn’t have to be on a schedule. But you reach out to those top clients. And again, that could be 10% or 30% of your clients depending on your law firm size, and asking them how you’re doing. And then bringing it back.

Rachel 11:18

How can law firms really use this feedback to differentiate themselves from the competition and really take that feedback to heart and actually make some changes?

Beth Cuzzone 11:26

So these are all really great questions. So you will find this staggering, I think, Rachel, I have been conducting client interviews for more than 20 years. I was at a consulting firm. Before I went in house to law firms where we did some client interviews, I’ve been at a law firm that I’ve been doing client interviews at for a couple of decades. I can probably count less than a dozen times that I’ve encountered a client feedback interview when the client hasn’t commented “this is the first time my law firm has ever asked me these questions.” This is the first time I’ve ever been invited to a client feedback session. That’s the first time that I’ve been, you know, invited to give some client service input. So think about that 25 plus years of client interviews, and I think less than 12 have actually had something like this happen to them before. My point is that the very nature of doing it is a differentiator, right. And what it will allow you to do is when you’re asking these questions, and getting the feedback about what they want to see, you can be that trusted advisor. That starts to bring all sorts of value, added value around your substantive legal service advice. And you can actually start to play a real business leader role with your clients so that you’re not seeing it as legal advice, or the necessary evil, but really start to see that you’re additive. And that you can be accretive to the company and their mission. And I think again, the way you do that is by taking the very information that you hear and turning it into value add.

Rachel 13:40

Moving into our next section here speaking a little bit about differentiating law from service from the competition, we’ve spoken about ways that law firms can interact with their clients and asking for that feedback allows them to, you know, show that they can be a really good added value. What are some ways that firms can really highlight the service they offer to clients and make that connection with them?

Beth Cuzzone 14:03

We’ve always had a hard time differentiating our services from our competition. I think we look alike. We sound alike. And I think where we’re going to find differentiation is – do we act alike? And so I think that some of the ways that we as law firms will be able to highlight the services that we offer to clients is instead of telling clients what we do, too, responding to clients about what they need and how we can solve, I think just sometimes we’ve gotten into a little bit of an automated notion of, we have a newsletter. And so we’re going to now send it out to every one of our clients that talks about a new law and something that we do. And that’s not differentiating, that’s not really highlighted. or services. Instead, I would say if law firms can start doing what I call Account Based Marketing, and looking at it client by client, and really understanding what’s important to the client, and the content and conversation that you put in front of those clients will be the way that you differentiate yourself. So move from content marketing, which was so popular a couple of years ago, I say, take the very tenets of content marketing, and bring them down to a client and have it, again, be client based. That’s where I think law firms will be able to differentiate those micro sites that are just for the client. And the information in that hub is just for that client. You know, if that client is a middle market, private company, they don’t care about what’s happening in the eye, you know, with no, by the way, with no interest in becoming a public company, you know, they don’t want to get 17 newsletters about a new law that’s impacting public companies. But you certainly can be looking at trends that are in the middle market space, and kind of what’s market deal points and be putting that into a hub. So that’s where I think I’d like to see law firms and lawyers and marketing departments really start to focus.

Rachel 16:32

I guess this is sort of like a two pronged question. How have you seen the legal industry pivot in the post COVID world in terms of how they interact with clients? And a larger question would be what changes have you seen with that sort of client interaction since COVID has taken place?

Beth Cuzzone 16:50

Well, I think that the playing field has leveled, I think that there used to be some type of hierarchy before you could have access to a client, when you were at a law firm. If you were the relationship partner, you were the bridge between the client and everybody else at your firm. And I have seen that collapse, that hierarchy collapse. And I think that these relationship partners have brought along, you know, some younger folks, or maybe one of their colleagues who’s an industry expert in something the client needs. But what I’ve also seen, which is so exciting for me, is the opportunity for people in marketing departments to have FaceTime with clients. And that’s always been a little bit of an obstacle for marketing departments and law firms. And I’ve heard so many of my executives, who are amazing brand ambassadors for their law firms say, I’m not sure how I can find a way to be client facing. And it’s been a goal of mine. And I think COVID has really changed that. And I think that now, there are lots of opportunities for the marketing departments, or the business development departments, the client, service departments, whatever they’re called, to really have that forward facing role. And I think feedback is one way, but using your CRM system, to really find some proactive opportunities, and bringing them to the relationship partner and saying, let’s talk with the client about this.

Rachel 18:49

So what are some things that Goulston & Storrs has done the past year to really adapt to challenges brought on by COVID-19? We’ve spoken to a number of law firms so far, and in making this podcast and it seems like all of them sort of have a different answer. So I think it’s interesting to get that perspective.

Beth Cuzzone 19:07

The first thing that we did, I think, as a firm was we took off the law firm or lawyer or legal services hat at the beginning of COVID. I think the place where we probably had a shining moment with our clients, we were worried about our clients, their families, their businesses, and we put down the webinars and the newsletters and the outreach, and just tried to reach out to them on a very personal individual level to be sure people were doing okay and were healthy, and that that’s the first thing we did. But then it came back to business as usual. And I’m looking at so many statistics Rachel that are showing me that law firms are having the best year they’ve had since the last downturn this year. And so we’ve done a number of things differently. First of all, the way we are packaging, pricing and delivering, our legal services looks a little bit different. We brought in a chief value officer a couple of years ago, and it’s a real growth spot for us a real bright light for us. Because we are spending a lot of time with clients trying to figure out how to price you know, our services that fall in line with where they may be, economically. And it’s a marathon, right, it’s not a sprint. And so they’re just, some years clients need a different approach than others, in terms of billing and payment terms, and that sort of thing. So we’ve really been trying to align with our client needs there. And, and just the way we’re talking to them is different, right, we’ve created more on demand video, versus hosting seminars in our offices.. So anything the same that you were doing pre COVID, probably time to look at that process. And I think that runs across all the business operations. think we’ve all had to manage to change and adapt.

Rachel 21:48

Right. And I think the only constant in life is change. I think one of the things that we have heard from a lot of law firms is just having just a pivot and make all these changes. And now a lot of law firms are looking at adopting law these things long term. So hopefully, we’ll see some, you know, improvements and some changes going long term.

Beth Cuzzone 22:15

I’m wondering, Rachel, you and your team spend so much time out in the marketplace, so I’m interested to see what trends are you seeing in the marketplace around client service and client growth.

Rachel 22:32

We’ve spoken with quite a few law firms in creating this podcast. And I think one of the big trends that we’ve seen from the guests that we’ve interviewed is, and you mentioned this earlier, sort of pivoting more to bring in the client into what these law firms are doing in terms of their marketing efforts, and finding new ways to connect with them. I think one of the one of the big things that we’ve seen as like a company as like, working with clients on publishing their thought leadership and publishing, you know, their events and things like that, I think one of the big things we did see are more firms doing these virtual events. And, you know, putting their expertise out there when they couldn’t meet in person, and they can’t, you know, have a conversation with their clients or go to a conference, or things like that. So I think just finding new ways to connect with the people that they work with, outside of the office, when we can’t actually be with each other in person.

Beth Cuzzone 23:39

Or so you’re starting to see content marketing, turn into content selling in a way and content relationship building. And you’re part of that process.

Rachel 23:49

Right. And we do. One of our publishing clients, specifically writes a lot about ways that attorneys and law firms can really set themselves apart or improve their processes. And that’s been a shift in focus from what we saw before the pandemic.

Beth Cuzzone 24:07

I love that. Are there are initiatives that you’re seeing that firms are deploying that actually improve relationships with their clients? Are you seeing some of what we touched on earlier in other firms or in the marketplace?

Rachel 24:20

Right, I think it sort of goes along with what I said earlier, and really positioning themselves as you know, a value improvement and then also highlighting what they do well, as a firm. Specifically, one of the topics that’s come up in other interviews is really highlighting what the firm is doing more broadly in terms of their growth, some speaking more about, like diversity and inclusion initiatives, keeping themselves accountable for making sure those things happen and really taking on more of these changes that we’ve seen as COVID has progressed. I mean, it’s just Typically, I’m talking about, you know, remote work arrangements, you know, really listening to what their attorneys want and need. So I think that’s been a big thing that we’ve seen on technology.

Beth Cuzzone 25:11

Are you seeing any technology that’s hot around growing relationships?

Rachel 25:21

The main thing is, as I spoke earlier, really taking advantage of virtual events. And I’m not specifically talking about just webinars, one of the other firms that we had on spoke about how they interacted with clients. And this is maybe more than relationship building is sort of empowering attorneys to have like a coffee meeting with their clients like a virtual coffee meeting. So they would, they would give out these Starbucks gift cards. So they could sit down with their clients and have a cup of coffee virtually, and really hear about the things that they’re experiencing, their pain points, things like that. And one other thing that they were talking about was, before the pandemic, they maybe had never even heard of doing a virtual happy hour. And maybe a lot of people would have scoffed at that idea of having like, either like a drink or a cup of coffee over a Zoom call. But he said that, you know, he’s been on countless, or at least I think at least he said, at least three virtual happy hour since the pandemic began. I don’t really think a lot of people used Zoom a lot before the pandemic. So it’s been sort of a big way that people have connected with their clients. But I’d be interested in hearing what you have to say about that topic. You know, are there any technologies that you’re seeing that are helping firms grow their relationships with their clients?

Beth Cuzzone 26:47

I think there’s a couple of things that we’re seeing Goulston & Storrs. We are looking for technology that brings efficiency, and AI to some of the services that we provide. And so you know, you’re on a constant hunt nf figuring out how artificial intelligence and that sort of thing helps. But also, one of the things that we’ve done is we have adopted a technology in all of our business units that talk to each other. Finance, pricing, experience, relationship, management, enterprise, all of those products are talking to each other. So you are more informed. And we’ve been able to create some predictability around some of our client needs. Because there’s so many things talking to each other, as opposed to having these silos. I feel like you and I are experiencing and seeing a lot of the same trends, I think our highlights for today is great disruption brings great opportunity, service will be a differentiator, your client is another law firm’s prospect. Getting closer and digging further down into that relationship has never been more important. And client feedback is not only a way for that to happen, but I think it’s also a way for the marketing business operations functions to find client facing roles.

Rachel 28:23

Right. And I think specifically, your focus for this podcast about bringing the client into the conversation, I think, isn’t one that we’ve had so far. I think one thing that’s been really great about this podcast is just being able to learn so much from each of the people that we talked to. So yeah, thank you for joining us today. And thank you for those great questions.

Beth Cuzzone 28:45

I just want to again, thank you for bringing this podcast to us. And the series because I think we’re going to learn a lot from each other. I think there’s a real brain trust among a legal marketing and business development community. And I’m thrilled that you’re bringing it together and making it accessible for all of us.

Rachel 29:05

We had a great conversation about client feedback, revenue, and go-to-market strategies in the legal industry. Special thanks to Beth Cuzzone from Goulston & Storrs for joining us today.

Beth Cuzzone 29:15

Thank you so much, Rachel.

Article By Rachel Popa and Jessica Scheck of The National Law Review / The National Law Forum LLC

For more articles on the legal industry, visit the NLR Law Office Management section.

9 Tips for Better Email Management for Lawyers

Email management for lawyers and professionals across most industries is a constant uphill battle. In fact, the average professional spends 28 percent of the workday reading and answering emails, according to McKinsey. A lawyer has to pay special attention to their inbox because they often receive lucrative client and business information. However, they’re also overloaded with industry updates, bar association newsletters, and civic engagement emails.

For a professional who bills by the hour, sifting through hundreds of emails is not only time-consuming but unprofitable. Email can also be a distraction and inhibit effective time management.

Here are some practical tips for email management for lawyers.

Take Advantage of Email Management Features and Shortcuts
Use Filters to Keep Inboxes Organized
Schedule Email Correspondence
Priotize Emails
Switch Internal Communication to Other Platforms
Clear the Clutter
Unsubscribe to Miscellaneous Emails
Disable Social Media Notifications
Embrace Legal Technology Solutions

1. Take Advantage of Email Management Features and Shortcuts

Email platforms have tons of features and shortcuts to make work more efficient and improve email management for lawyers. Unfortunately, most people don’t take the time to learn about them and use them to their fullest.

For example, Gmail has a feature that allows you to mute conversations in groups and keep them from popping up at the top of the inbox each time someone contributes. Gmail also offers task management and reporting tools to maximize efficiency.

2. Use Filters to Keep Inboxes Organized

Lawyers’ inboxes become cluttered from questions and correspondence from non-clients. For example, law firms may have an inefficient onboarding process that leads new team members to direct questions to anyone available, including lawyers.

The best way to address this is for law firms to put rules in place to ensure that emails go to the appropriate recipients – in the onboarding example, that would be the onboarding team. Inboxes can also be sorted using separate folders and filters, such as clients, bar association, and so on, to make it easy to identify high-priority emails.

3. Schedule Email Correspondence

Email provides a tempting distraction for lawyers. While waiting for an important email reply for a case, a lawyer may compulsively check email to see if it came through. That leaves them open to other distractions, such as the industry newsletter with a provocative subject line. Before they know it, hours have passed and most of it was spent scrolling the inbox.

Lawyers should designate a few times throughout the day that are for checking the inbox and responding to emails. These times can be first thing in the morning, before or after lunch, or before leaving for the day. The timing doesn’t matter as much as keeping the schedule consistent and sticking to the rule of only checking email during those scheduled periods.

4. Prioritize Emails

Email prioritization is a simple way to manage an overflowing inbox. Lawyers should divide emails into sections for emails that require follow-up, emails that can wait, and emails to archive.

Follow-up emails are emails that need responses in a timely fashion, such as client emails. These are the most important emails in an inbox and should have priority. Emails that can wait may include emails that need further work or research before a response, such as internal emails from management teams. Email archives should only have emails that are finished and require no further communication but may need to be referenced later.

5. Switch Internal Communication to Other Platforms

Inboxes can become cluttered from internal communications, which isn’t ideal for anyone at the firm. If possible, law firms should switch internal communications from email to other communication tools, such as chat tools or document review software.

This not only keeps email inboxes focused on crucial client or business correspondence, but ensures that the law firm has streamlined communication to keep everyone on the same page.

6. Clear the Clutter

Most people, not just lawyers, have a fear of hitting the “delete” button. Everyone convinces themselves that they’ll need that email in the future and it should be saved, but that just leads to an overloaded inbox that mixes important emails with internet junk mail.

Like anyone else, lawyers have emails that have been lying unattended in the inbox for months or even years. In all likelihood, the sender has forgotten about the email, yet the recipient holds onto it “just in case.”

The practical choice is for lawyers to sort through the inbox and delete any email that’s been sitting for ages, all with the intent of responding or following up someday. Any emails that are undecided can go in the archives, so they’re around if needed, but don’t take up space in the inbox.

7. Unsubscribe to Miscellaneous Emails

Lawyers get spam emails, too. If left unchecked, spam email can overtake an inbox with irrelevant promotions. Lawyers may subscribe to an email list deliberately, then no longer need the information, or accidentally while searching for information in a rush.

Ideally, lawyers will only subscribe to email lists they want to receive information from. It doesn’t always go that way, however, so lawyers should set aside time each month or every few months to identify emails that go unopened and hit the “unsubscribe” button.

8. Disable Social Media Email Notifications

Social media is a distraction in and of itself, especially with email notifications. Inboxes can become overloaded with social media notifications for every like, comment, or share, leading lawyers to not only check their inboxes but sign on to social media accounts.

None of these notifications is important to a lawyer’s workday. Many law firms have social media teams, but if they don’t, it’s more efficient to schedule time in the day or week for social media engagement and leave the rest of the time focused on priority emails.

Lawyers should log in to each social media account and deactivate email notifications, as well as any other platform that has email app notifications. This could rid an inbox of thousands of emails each month.

9. Embrace Legal Technology Solutions

Law may be a traditional industry, but legal technology options have incredible benefits for streamlining efficiency and maximizing productivity at law firms – including email.

Several tools are available to sync with email and assist with inbox management, such as solutions that integrate with Microsoft Outlook, Gmail, and MailChimp to sync emails, view contact information, and create tasks.

Make Email Management for Lawyers Simple

Email can be a significant distraction and time waste for lawyers and law firms, but many technology tools are available to help. PracticePanther helps lawyers stay on track with automation tools and relevant app integrations to prioritize client emails, create new contacts, and manage tasks to keep your practice organized.

Article By PracticePanther

For more articles on legal technology, visit the NLRLaw Office Management section.

Content Management & Technical SEO with John McDougall [PODCAST]

Skeptical of your marketing efforts and wonder if all that work is really worth it? Rachel and Jessica get some great background on SEO from John McDougall, President of McDougall Interactive. Spoiler alert: good SEO practices can catapult your business to the next level.

Read on below for a transcribed version of our conversation, created by AI. The transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and readability.

INTRO 00:02

Hello, and welcome to Legal News Reach, the official podcast for the National Law Review. Stay tuned for a discussion on the latest trends in legal marketing, SEO, law firm best practices and more.

Rachel 00:15

I’m Rachel, the Editorial Manager for the National Law Review.

Jessica 00:18

And I’m Jessica, a web content specialist for the National Law Review. And we’re the co-hosts for Legal News Reach.

Rachel 00:25

In this episode, we’re excited to talk to John McDougall, president of McDougall Interactive. John, would you like to introduce yourself to our listeners?

John McDougall 00:32

Yeah, sure. So welcome, everyone, and appreciate the opportunity to talk to you guys today. And I started in 95 at my father’s ad agency selling websites. So I kind of fell in love with it early on and have been doing SEO ever since. So now, I just started a class called Talk Marketing. In addition to the agency, McDougall Interactive, we do coaching and teaching.

Rachel 01:18

Excellent, we’re excited to get your perspective on SEO. So just sort of moving into our first topic here, with how much Google’s has changed, and how much people’s habits with, you know, searching tends to change, why is it so hard to do SEO now?

John McDougall 01:34

Oh, it’s just so much to do. I mean, it’s like you need a small army to do it, you need organizational skills, and early SEO, you could just fly around and go to some conferences and do some, you know, pull it off yourself. I don’t know, somewhere in the 90s, I made a hearing aid website over a weekend I did the logo, design, the website, built it and hand coded in HTML, wrote the pages for different brands of hearing aids, and launched it over the weekend. And then it was ranking and Yahoo, like number one for hearing aids, and then a company bought my client. And then I started working for that company. So it was that easy, almost back in the day. And now, I mean, my God, we’ll get into it more as we go here. But there are just 1000 different things that can influence your SEO.

Rachel 02:23

So moving more into legal industry specifics, is there a different approach for different types of law firms? So personal injury, or maybe more business-oriented law firms in terms of like website marketing?

John McDougall 02:37

I don’t have to sell a personal injury attorney on the idea of SEO, right, they’re there, they know that their customers are out there searching, you know, if you get bit by a dog or injured by a dangerous drug or medical device, you don’t necessarily even want to ask someone for a referral, if it’s embarrassing. Or if you’re in a rush, or you know, whatever it is. So you’re going to search Google, it’s a no brainer. On the other side, with business lawyers, there are some very big companies that, you know, business attorneys will say they’re just not going to search Google for me. And that may be true, but later they tell you, but if they do search for this certain niche kind of thing, I’d like my thought leadership content to be there at the top of Google. So ironically, I think that sometimes having good content that search optimized is maybe not as important as the obvious thing with personal injury, like I said, but pretty close to similar importance, right? So if it’s intellectual property, or international law, different things that are really important, if you’re going to impress the General Counsel, or some really high level people, they might want to see that you’re in search, not just in conversations with them and, and even if it’s not so much, they’re searching Google, when they get to your site, there should be an active, either a blog on your site, or separate off site blogs on niche topics that really just show highlight your thought leadership. So my argument would be if you if you have to do that anyway, because you want to show your thought leadership, at least put some effort into a fast loading website, good title and meta tags, consistent content, if weekly, if not, at least monthly. So some of the same things that you would tell a personal injury lawyer really do apply to business lawyers just at a slightly less exaggerated pace. You might not go out and do link building or like you probably will do PR but maybe not PR for link building like you would with personal injury potentially. A lot of spreading your thought leadership content should involve good quality content that is optimized for the internet. You know that a lot of that is his research some of its or social media. But, you know, so a lot of the same rules apply at different levels of exaggeration,

Rachel 05:10

Right. And so once lawyers really get their feet into creating this really great content and optimizing SEO, how do they then keep up with all the changes that Google makes to its algorithm?

John McDougall 05:23

They have to either hire an agency who keeps up with it, or to help them and spoon feed what’s most important to them? That would be one way. The other way, if they’re going to be more do it yourselfers or the marketing department wants to keep up. I just have to keep reading things like search engine land Search Engine Journal, you know, HubSpot blog, things like that, you’re going to really need to keep up. And an agency has the benefit of testing across lots of sites. So for as an example, in 2012, I had 27 clients or something like that. And Google Penguin hit, which was an algorithm, Google designed to discredit low quality links. One day, I was looking at my ranks, and I said, Geez, this doesn’t look good. Something’s going on here. And I asked a guy that was a subcontractor of mine, he said, No, I’m not seeing anything unusual. He’s like, wait a minute, let me call you back. He goes and looks at his rankings across, he had hundreds of clients, he had a lower price point and the strategy of more clients, and he said, Oh, crap, we’re seeing like, significant drops consistently across all clients, it turned out that Google had just dropped the bomb of Google Penguin on people. And I think, later, they maybe regretted it, I’d like to think that they went too fast with it. So, you know, by having multiple clients, and asking a subcontractor to read lots of clients, we were able to see that this is not a made up trend. This is not my imagination, you know, this is how we’re keeping up with trends is networking with peers. And then of course, it broke within hours or days on search engine, journal, and Search Engine Land and things. But we were we were seeing it in multiple clients’ data. So if you’re a law firm, you have one site, just be aware of that, that, you know, you should be looking to others that have multiple clients are certainly at least the top, you know, SEO media magazine sites online, and you so that you can see what the trends are.

John McDougall 07:35

I think an editorial calendar is key. At the National Law Review, you have huge amounts of content, but you need to think like a magazine/ And if you don’t, you won’t be consistent. So that’s at the heart of it. And then find ways to either the attorneys involved, or the agency involved with the attorneys to generate content around topics. And we can get into that more in a minute.

Jessica 08:13

We were going to ask you about each social media type, mostly because so many law firms now are realizing if they didn’t before, which they probably didn’t. But I think law firms and clients in general are realizing we can make the internet and like social media work for us. And they’re paying attention to what those numbers mean now. So I want to know, you know, I want to tack each type that we’re seeing more common output with so like podcasts. How does that help with SEO?

John McDougall 08:42

Yeah. And so I would tie that again, back into the last question, because I think it’s critical that people understand that you can do s SEO driven content through podcasting, and video, if you’re not using transcripts, for your podcasts in your videos, you just probably not getting as much mileage as you could. And a lot of people will make like a show note for your podcast. And that’s good, you know, a little couple paragraphs or something in this episode, you’ll see this in some bullet points. But in addition to that, having the transcript as an option, you can even make it so it can disappear and appear on the page. So the search engines can still read it. But having content with attorneys that are thought leaders isn’t always easy to get with having them write, you know, some of them are going to be rock stars they’re going to write, some of them just aren’t. And you might have categories that well, the intellectual property lawyer is writing just fine. But the international law or whatever law is the person’s amazing speaker but a terrible writer are just lazy or just doesn’t have time to write whatever it is. If you want SEO and consistent content, you can just do shorter ones, because every minute of podcasting, we get 130 words, even a 10 minute, say 12 minute podcast, you can get like 1500 words, that’s a really robust, deep piece of content. And the attorneys just talking, you know, they do that all the time, they’re good at it. So if your marketing team handles that, and just knocks those out to be consistent, you got to let go a little bit. And maybe occasionally do the half hour, the hour podcast, you’re gonna get a lot of consistent content, then you can turn some of that into short YouTube videos, or do remote YouTube videos, or in person YouTube videos that are like a minute, two minutes, you know, what is this particular law? You know, What is Brexit, even, you know, cover some of the things that if you’re a search engine algorithm, it’s going to be good to see on your website that you dispute, you know, ask the question, like, What is Brexit? Maybe somebody on their into Amazon Alexa, or Google Home is like, hey, Alexa, What is Brexit? So if you’re going to cover all of the gamuts of the way people are asking questions, you’re going to need lots of content. And if you’re waiting around for, you know, attorneys to write that aren’t necessarily writers. Sometimes it works great.

Jessica 12:12

It’s really interesting that you mentioned podcasting and combining video with that, because that’s what we are doing. But it’s also like having the transcript for a podcast episode is the web content accessibility guideline that you’re supposed to have on a website, you’re usually supposed to have to be ADA compliant. Yeah. So it’s it to know it helps SEO is always good. So I’m sure would tell people listening to this, that, hey, that extra work actually does help you and you know, the people who need to access your site.

John McDougall 12:45

Yeah. So exactly like all this just for SEO, it’s a big pain in the butt. All of your content should have an alternative version, even an image should have as you hover over it an alt tag. And that was true in the 90s, and I think it’s part of the future of SEO and it’s been there and you really can’t ignore it anymore.

Jessica 13:55

I think the pandemic especially made that very loud realization for so many people, not just the compliance part of a website, also, just with this SEO, all these numbers and tactics you have to use now on your site, because that’s where people are going. I mean, when the pandemic happened, you weren’t going into a place you were going to their site. So how has SEO changed? Besides like those couple of things? Are there any other characteristics you’ve noticed since the past year? So

John McDougall 14:25

I’d say the competition level is huge because of the pandemic. My father who had the ad agency, sent me an article six months or a year ago, the Wall Street Journal said that essentially the Mad Men era is done, exacerbated by SEO and Google ads. More and more important, I think podcast ads have taken over more than radio ads after the pandemic. It’s like the nail in the coffin. Now, most of advertising is controlled by the big Google, Facebook, Amazon for products, right? Because Amazon’s basically a search engine for the products. So those three alone, I mean, Google’s top five company and, you know, the old control that ad agencies had is basically gone. The Wall Street Journal saying basically, advertising is controlled by digital now. And what does that mean? That means there’s a crazy amount of competition. So if you’re doing SEO, like I was a long time ago, the hearing aids just cram it into the title and meta tags. And throughout the page, you’re done. You know, that’s not the case anymore. Now, type in something like Phone X, hearing aids or series, Siemens hearing aids online or something, and then see the page that ranks what is there, and it’s probably, you know, God knows how many SEO agencies have helped hearing aid companies make like the ultimate page, the ultimate guide to hearing aids, you know, this, like 10,000 word article? That’s, that’s a big change. And, you know, we can go in more into some of the specifics. But that’s more broadly, what I think is changed as competition is up, and it’s not going away anytime soon. I mean, what are you guys seeing with SEO? Overall? Are you seeing big changes? Or it’s harder than ever? What are you seeing?

Rachel 16:43

I would say, probably one of the biggest things that we’ve seen make an impact in terms of like our clients content, when we see things do particularly well, it’s that they have, you know, really great keywords. So, you know, headers posed as questions, the articles are long, so they have like about 1200 words. Timeliness also seems to be a big contributing factor to content success. So if it comes to us, you know, around noon, rather than like, 5pm, on a Friday, those articles tend to do way better than ones that are short, you know, that don’t have like, you know, really great bullet points, really great formatting. I think in terms of people who are looking to sort of do well on our website, and things like that, it’s important to make your content really great for search engines. So you know, and also really readable for people. Yeah, so having really great headers, you know, thinking about what people who want to find your expertise, like what are they want to know about, and including that in your headers and things like that.

Jessica 17:53

Definitely, that content competition is huge. Now, I mean, we already get a lot of content just because we have so many clients that we want to, you know, put out their information. You know, if we have a Supreme Court decision, that’s huge. I mean, we’ll get like multiple pieces on the same thing. And it’s kind of a game of like, who the slightest difference in formatting or word choices, keyword choices can really like make some articles do really well, as far as viewership just staying on the page and not bouncing versus other pages that for some reason, even on the same topic, maybe you just didn’t quite do the same level, you know, not as many views.

John McDougall 18:32

Historically, SEO people like myself will be more focused on the backlinks than on the social shares. Sometimes one helps the other. So one of my best case studies, we wrote an article for a bank, and it got on to NerdWallet. NerdWallet interviewed us to link to the content. But it was all started with just sharing it on Twitter and Facebook. So we were we were sharing the content. We were doing social media, but we weren’t holding our breath for to do that much except hoping we would get some people to link to the content. And we got backlinks from NerdWallet, which is like a massive financial website with a huge amount of credibility. Another one was lobsters, we ranked number two in Google for the single word lobsters. And I wrote an article because I have lobster traps and do fishing and things. And so I wrote an article 100 Fun Facts About lobsters and it got shared by the Huffington Post and a bunch of places no, suddenly, this little restaurant near me got hundreds of 1000s of views on a, you know, a silly page about lobsters with some historic photos and, you know, these crazy facts. Sometimes we’ll use social media to get links, you know, just getting the visibility out there and I agree that you know, if you can get it out there faster, you’re more likely to get all that to happen. And you can look at your top pages and look by top pages by social shares and top pages by backlinks. So I would just recommend to the audience and you guys, if you’re not doing it, check out where you rank in search. Are you like number four, or five, or God forbid, number six, because Top Five is where I forget, it’s like 67% of the eyeballs go, used to be want to be top 10 In Google. Now, really, top five is key. And a number one, of course, gets, you know, a huge amount of the lion’s share of eyeballs and clicks, you get a lot of leads, do you think from social media? Or is that part of the process?

Rachel 20:53

The vast majority of our traffic does come from SEO and from Google. But we definitely see a connection between the social outreach that we do we have a pretty robust social media strategy and process where we try to, you know, use certain hashtags that are relevant, and also tagging specific people who we think would find the content to be specifically interesting to them. Social is definitely a big part of it. But it’s sort of like the larger picture of it’s just one of the things that we do, I think SEO is more important, but I think social kind of can tie in SEO in a way that the relevant people are finding it on a different channel

John McDougall 21:32

One of the things I speak to and I’ve done this with Jennifer, actually on a webinar is the seven main factors of SEO that I believe people need to think about, like technical SEO, which is a really a booming trend right now, a fast loading website is going to rank way better than a slow loading website. Because even if you do everything right, SEO wise, if it’s slow loading, Google is not going to give you as good a ranking. Number one is technical SEO – you can’t have too many broken links, no duplicate titles, and meta descriptions all over the place. And it’s not like it used to be, but it’s still on page SEO, and then content, fresh content, blogging, content, depth of content is important. And then off page SEO, or what we call link building, which is essentially PR. You need to get media sites or even small blogs, to link to you and link to individual pages. And then number four is user signals, and user experience. And then user signals are more like if you search Google for, you know, personal injury lawyer Boston. Seven is branding. So instead of just doing SEO, law firms should really be building a brand that’s known for something. And you guys are known in at least if you look at your backlinks and your social shares, again, Brexit, I think it was constitutional amendments, you guys get a lot of backlinks for that. So build your brand and be known for something and then have some content that you really stand out for. That is more the future of SEO is you can’t just do SEO, ironically, you need to be part of a brand.

Jessica 24:08

The purpose of SEO and those tactics are good for people, because I think it makes the content more relevant. I think it makes things on the internet more valuable to people who need it. You know, everybody goes on the internet for information now. And now companies and websites are forced to make sure that they’re actually valuable. They’re not just filled with links for no reason and, you know, short little things that aren’t going to help someone so I think yeah, I don’t know if everybody agrees with that. But I think it actually makes it better for the audience that’s reading it and going to your site anyway. Personally, I think it’s good

John McDougall 24:42

Google is better at enforcing those things now. So that was sort of the goal always with the Internet. But because we could just game the system, you know, certainly low end SEO companies back in the day, just get crappy links build stupid pages that meant nothing. Those tactics should be dead. Unfortunately, it’s like, wow, no, it’s so hard. Like you didn’t have to go that far. Take some of those TV dollars or, or print dollars or event dollars. And actually, whether you pay agencies or do it internally, really train up and do it right. There’s a lot of proven workflows for this stuff. You just have to trust the three of us and other people doing this stuff, are people we’re not just making stuff up, you know, where we’re doing all those things we just discussed, and it takes time, each one of them. Add snippets to the site, you know, go into figure out Google Analytics for you know, use Google Search Console every week, you know, use SEMRush to use a draft. All this stuff is more time consuming now, but I like it. I think it’s more developed. It’s, you know, you have to be more aggressive. It’s not as easy. I mean, there’s certainly a lot to do. So. That’s the good news is, there’s stuff to do that does work if you keep at it. But yeah, if you’re not consistent, it’s never going to work. You get those social shares and even sometimes backlinks from very relevant partners or related people and Google can’t miss that, you know. So yeah, it’s all a win win. Yeah, I could go off way off on that one. But sounds like you guys are really doing the right thing with it and repurposing that content.

Rachel 26:32

Yeah. It’s been a lot of fun. And we’ve had a great conversation with you, John, thank you so much for joining us.

Article By Rachel Popa and Jessica Scheck of

The National Law Review / The National Law Forum LLC

For more articles on legal marketing, visit the NLRLaw Office Management section.

11 Ways to Tap into the Legal Market’s Greenfield

A survey conducted in 2019 determined that nearly 80% of Americans with a legal issue didn’t hire a lawyer to handle it. When you consider that over 50% of people in the US claim to have had a legal issue at some point over the last two years, you’re looking at a considerable amount of potential clients. In other words, there is an enormous array of people who need lawyers who simply aren’t hiring one.

The secret to tapping into this greenfield dormant legal market is knowing the reasons behind their aversion to lawyers. By understanding the reasons behind people’s hesitancy to pay for legal services, you can attempt to better appeal to them, and tap into a huge pool of potential clients.

Why People Are Hesitant To Hire Lawyers:

!Price

The first and most obvious reason why people are hesitant to hire a lawyer is the price tag attached to them. Considering the majority of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, it’s not surprising that paying between $100 and $400 an hour for a lawyer (or more) is a stretch for their wallets.

Even “simple” legal cases can cost thousands of dollars, and more complex ones can be financially detrimental for a cash-strapped client. Although many lawyers are starting to move towards a flat-fee pricing system that delivers an upfront summary of costs rather than wondering how much your case will all add up, a lot of people still aren’t biting.

It’s time for lawyers to start asking themselves how they can transform the way they deliver and price their legal services to tap into this untapped world of would-be clients.

!Lack of Transparency

Ever heard the joke, “what’s the difference between a vacuum cleaner and a lawyer riding a motorcycle?” — “The vacuum cleaner has the dirtbag on the inside.” This is just one of the many zingers out there about lawyers. It’s no secret that many swindling lawyers have made it hard for the honest ones in the profession. Now, lawyers have to defend themselves against lousy reputations for lack of transparency about their prices.

That’s why it’s incredibly important that you lay out your pricing system from day one. Be clear about your prices, and you’ll save you and your client a world of trouble later on.

!Bad Past Experiences

Another frequent reason for the untapped legal market not hiring lawyers is because many people have had bad experiences with a lawyer in the past. Surprisingly, people’s biggest reason for a negative experience is often because they felt their lawyers were very bad at communication. Believe it or not, a positive client experience doesn’t always come down to their lawyer winning their case or not. Clients often just want to be informed on their case and answered in a timely manner when they have a question.

That means there are people out there thrilled with their lawyers and their lawyers didn’t even give them the best possible outcome on their case. Ultimately, what people want is a positive client journey. Yet, without a systematic method in place, it can be hard to deliver the kind of service that people want.

The only way to convince people that not all lawyers are bad is to get things started on the right foot. Using legal client intake software is the only way to respond quickly when you’re handling multiple cases at a time. Workflow automation for law firms makes your clients feel connected to you from the first moment they reach out. Legal client intake software allows you to set up trigger-based emails that automatically send a message out based on an action of your choosing. The end result is satisfied clients who feel as if they’re your only client.

Article by Sarah Bottorff with Lawmatics.

For more articles about the legal market, visit the NLR Business of Law section.

Text Messaging for Lawyers: Building Stronger Client Relationships

In today’s world of instant gratification and text savviness, lawyers should consider changing the way they communicate with clients. Some people detest answering calls, and with the rise of robocalls, this aversion is only getting worse with all generations. Add in the fact that today’s consumer expects a response within seconds, it’s clear that text messaging is becoming the new way of communication for most businesses.

For lawyers that are accustomed to emailing their clients, this may come as a curveball. Especially, considering that the legal industry has an average open rate of 18.30 percent for emails. Phone calls and emails are no longer the preferred method of communication, which is why you should be texting your clients.

Benefits of Texting

Marketers have been studying the effectiveness of text messaging and spreading the news of its benefits so much that 62 percent of business marketers plan to use automated text messaging in the next year. What is it that has these marketing experts so convinced?

Change of Preference – The vast majority of consumers prefer to communicate via text instead of calls or email. If a business is trying to send a message to prospects, it’s important to know it’s actually going to be seen.
Faster Delivery – When time is of the essence, delivering a message via text is the fastest way to ensure your recipient sees your communication. Email open rates are at an all-time low, so those messages may go days without being seen, if they’re seen at all.
Faster Response – With faster delivery comes faster response times. Studies have shown text response rates are eight times faster than that of email.

Business Text Messaging

Business owners have already started incorporating text messaging in both their marketing and client retention strategies. Studies have shown that the new generations will ignore calls, even from known contacts, and typically only use email to reset passwords and register for services. As a workaround, businesses are enlisting the help of text messaging services to reach out to potential customers.

Instead of only investing in generating prospects, more and more businesses are using technology to help retain customers by enabling text help and communication. This feature is often embedded on the business’s website and allows the customer to text a business directly from their phone for quick, personalized help.

Text messaging has increasingly grown in popularity across several industries. Studies show that businesses that respond to a customer’s inquiry within five minutes increase their chances of converting that prospect by nine times. In addition, studies show that the majority of consumers will go to the business that responds first, regardless of affiliation, pricing, or worthiness.

With statistics like this, industries across the spectrum are seeing the need for lightning-fast responses which can only be achieved through text messaging. The legal industry is no exception.

Text Messaging for Lawyers

The legal industry is not one that has historically been quick to respond to change, so it’s no wonder that some lawyers are hesitant to adopt text messaging in their communication process. Common objections to this method of communication seem to be propriety and confidentiality, while others are admittingly stuck in their old ways.

While the third issue is difficult at best to overcome, there are clear solutions and arguments for the first two which are detailed below.

Is It Appropriate to Text Clients?

This question comes up often when lawyers are trying to decide if text messaging is a professional mode of communication. However, instead of viewing it from a proprietary standpoint, a lawyer should be asking the legal duty they have to communicate to their client efficiently. As the younger generations are coming of age and becoming clients, it’s important to adapt to their preferred mode of communication.

If a client only has a cell phone and no easy access to email, the lawyer should accommodate the client and reach out to them in the best way possible. For most, that means adopting text messaging as a primary mode of communication.

Are Text Messages Confidential?

Text messages may not be confidential in nature, creating challenges for texting clients. Instead of avoiding text messaging due to this potential issue, lawyers should ask their clients to use screen locks and other security features on their phones. In most cases, clients are just as dedicated to protecting their privacy as their lawyer.

While expectations should be discussed in advance, it’s easy for conversations to slip into gray areas. If a conversation may be veering into a confidentiality issue, the lawyer may suggest switching to a phone or in-person conversation.

Best Practices for Text Messaging Clients

As lawyers make the transition to using text messages more often, the standards for best practices will grow. Thus far, the top tips for texting clients include:

Adopt a legal practice management software that provides users with a business number to text clients within the platform and safely stores all correspondences with each contact.
Never negotiate terms of attorney-client relationships or anything that feels like a grey area. Remember: business text messages are supposed to be quick and informal.
Discuss expectations and appropriate topics for texting. Make sure clients understand some topics are off-limits for text messaging and should be saved for in-person meetings.

Keeping with the Times

While many lawyers may remember calling their client’s on wall-mounted phones and landlines, times have quickly changed. The legal industry has to get on board if it’s going to serve clients effectively and retain clients.

Despite the concerns, the benefits of text messaging outweigh the cons, and law firms will likely see an increase in client retention and improved communication once they adopt text messaging. With a minimal upfront effort, lawyers can start texting their clients while maintaining confidentiality and professionalism, allowing clients to receive the best, and most convenient, representation possible.

This article was prepared by PracticePanther. For more articles about client relations, please see here.

The National Law Review Launches ‘Legal News Reach’ Podcast, Featuring Experts in the Legal Marketing Industry

The National Law Review is excited to announce the launch of Legal News Reach, a new bi-weekly podcast that features guests with expertise in legal marketing, SEO, law firm best practices, and more. Hosted by NLR’s Editorial Manager Rachel Popa, and Web Content Specialist Jessica Scheck, Legal News Reach highlights for listeners the latest legal marketing strategies to help them stand out and stand firm in the legal industry.

The first season of the podcast focuses on topics such as hiring and marketing in the legal industry, legal marketing budgets post COVID-19, the attorney-client relationship, diversity and inclusion initiatives (D&I) and law firm pro bono initiatives.

In the inaugural episode, Rachel and Jess discussed marketing tactics for law firms in the post-COVID work environment with Melanie Trudeau, Director of New Business & Digital Strategies at Jaffe PR.

“A few things I would like to see stick around would be giving some more autonomy to attorneys to just do their work effectively from a home office. They don’t have to spend all that time getting ready to go to work, and juggling childcare. If you can create a lot more flexibility in the work environment, that’s going to make firms competitive,” Ms. Trudeau said.

To adjust to the challenges of COVID-19, the legal industry pivoted and made adjustments as to how they delivered their services and how attorneys work. However, as the pandemic continues, law firms that remain flexible will find it easier to stand out from their competitors. Legal News Reach provides a platform for legal professionals to learn from the top experts in the industry, as well as showcase their own expertise. Episodes are published and featured on the National Law Review website, which today is one of the highest volume business law publications in the US after over 10 years of steady growth.

“Law firm marketers have a wealth of knowledge and experience that’s often unique to the legal industry. Legal News Reach provides a forum for them to share their insights, discuss industry trends, and showcase examples of real-world experience,” Ms. Trudeau said.

Pivoting to changes brought on by the COVID-19 pandemic carried over into the second episode of the podcast, with Rachel and Jess discussing the COVID-19 pandemic’s impact on legal marketing budgets with Guy Alvarez, Founder and Chief Engagement Officer of Good2bSocial.

“What we’re seeing is really a shift in terms of budget from the real world into the virtual world. And as a result, we’re seeing law firms spend a lot of their budget on digital marketing, ways that they can enhance their website, and how they can communicate to their clients and prospects their knowledge, their experience and basically stay top of mind and develop strategic relationships,” Mr. Alvarez said.

Prior to the pandemic, many firms focused on live events, conferences and trade events. Now that meeting in person is more difficult, firms are pivoting to hosting more webinars and podcasts. Both lawyers and legal marketers can pick up tips from legal marketing leaders on Legal News Reach on how to stay connected with their clients, and highlight their firm’s unique value proposition.

“The National Law Review’s Legal News Reach podcast is a great platform for lawyers and legal marketers to learn the latest trends affecting the industry,” Mr. Alvarez said.

In the third episode of the Legal News Reach podcast, Rachel and Jess spoke with Baker, Donelson, Bearman, Caldwell & Berkowitz President and Chief Operating Officer Jennifer Keller, and Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer Adam Severson about law firm management, D&I initiatives and attorney-client relationship building.

“I think from the law firm management perspective, there’s a lot of interesting work going on right now in analyzing the changes in law firm management the last 18 months have brought us. I think what you’re going to see looking 5 to 10 years ahead is younger, more diverse teams of leadership in firms,” Ms. Keller said.

“D&I is one of those areas that I think we all recognize that we can all be better. It’s an area that I think has been important for everybody. Without a clear roadmap and some specificity to it, we’re not going to get to where we need to be as a firm and candidly, as an industry,” Mr. Severson said.

Despite the challenges brought on by the COVID-19 pandemic, many law firms found silver linings as well, embracing new diversity initiatives that will have an impact for years to come. Legal News Reach builds off the National’s Law Review’s audience of over 2 million legal and business professionals to highlight the best practices of leading-edge law firms.

“It was great to be featured in the Legal News Reach podcast to share some of the great things Baker Donelson is doing. The National Law Review’s audience has tremendous reach so it was great to be highlighted,” Mr. Severson said.

The first four episodes of the first season of Legal News Reach are currently available on natlawreview.com, as well as major podcast platforms such as Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Breaker , Anchor.fm, Pocket Casts, Radio Public, Soundcloud and more. Listeners can also find Legal News Reach podcast clips on the National Law Review YouTube channel. The first season of the podcast includes 10 episodes, with the second season planned to launch in 2022.

For more articles on legal marketing, visit the NLR Law Office Management section.

The Framework for Generation-Conscious Policies

Who Participates and How

Learning, not Training

Performance with Purpose

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Legal Industry Awards and Recognition

Firm Inclusion & Diversity Efforts

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1. Take Advantage of Email Management Features and Shortcuts

2. Use Filters to Keep Inboxes Organized

3. Schedule Email Correspondence

4. Prioritize Emails

5. Switch Internal Communication to Other Platforms

6. Clear the Clutter

7. Unsubscribe to Miscellaneous Emails

8. Disable Social Media Email Notifications

9. Embrace Legal Technology Solutions

Make Email Management for Lawyers Simple

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Why People Are Hesitant To Hire Lawyers:

!Price

!Lack of Transparency

!Bad Past Experiences

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Like this:

Benefits of Texting

Business Text Messaging

Text Messaging for Lawyers

Is It Appropriate to Text Clients?

Are Text Messages Confidential?

Best Practices for Text Messaging Clients

Keeping with the Times

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